Okay, seeing as conservative67 asked...

[ayoub]

Israel and Palestine.

Before proceeding, read up on your recent history here.

Now this is where, if you're easily offended by very negative words against Israel or Palestine, you will stop reading.

Still with me? Okay.

As the article I linked to above states:

During the years of the Palestine Mandate, from 1922 to 1947, large-scale Jewish immigration from abroad, mainly from Eastern Europe took place, the numbers swelling in the 1930s with the notorious Nazi persecution of Jewish populations. Palestinian demands for independence and resistance to Jewish immigration led to a rebellion in 1937, followed by continuing terrorism and violence from both sides during and immediately after World War II. Great Britain tried to implement various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged by violence. In 1947, Great Britain turned the problem over to the United Nations.

This should have been nipped in the bud back then. Troops should have come in and separated the two nations with embargoes put into effect regarding the purchase of arms.

The U.N. put in Resolution 181 (II) in 1947. This was largely ignored by Israel. This is something Israel as a nation have done repeatedly through the sordid history of its existence. Again, the U.N. should have sent troops in to ensure this peace process wasn't derailed.

Of course, 1n 1967, Israel became a bigger bully, throwing its weight around and stealing land from Egypt and Jordan. Security Council Resolution 242 ordered Israel to withdraw, but they didn't. Israel have ignored the world for a very long time.

I'm assuming you've read the rest of the document I linked to in the beginning, so I'll stop quoting it :P

Israelis and Palestinians have been at each other's throats since Israel was formed. Frankly, they've been at it long before then, too.

Israel is the more powerful force in this, and that is because of the support it has from many nations worldwide, not least of which is the U.S.A. Palestinians have been kept oppressed in Israel because of the power that the government wields.

According to the ACRI (the Association for Civil Rights in Israel):

The Palestinian population (excluding refugees) is around 5.3 million. About 3.9 million live in occupied Gaza and the West Bank, and another 1.4 million are Israeli citizens comprising 20% of the population of 7,150,000. They live mainly in three heartlands - the Galillee in the north, along the "Little Triangle" in the center, and the Negev in the south. They get no rights afforded Jews even though Israeli Arabs are citizens, have passports and Ids and can vote in Knesset elections. Even so, they're nonpersons, are systematically abused, neglected, and are confined to 2% of the land plus another 1% for agricultural use.

This level of human rights abuses has gone on for forty years, despite outcries, and despite the United Nations forming roadmap after roadmap.

It's been hypothesised by greater minds than mine that there is a chain of abuse. An abused person often becomes an abuser, and in my mind, I can't get away from the idea that this has happened to many Israelis. After suffering the abuses of the Holocaust, they are doing the same thing to Palestinians.

But then, the Palestinians aren't saints. They've resorted to killing civilians with suicide attacks, and random rockets. They've not tried to follow the roadmaps either, especially the latest one. Electing a terrorist organisation like Hamas is not a move for peace.

The only time there will be peace in that region, is if the entire area is nuked. Leave nothing standing, not even Jerusalem. If there's no land for these two violent and unapologetic nations to fight over, maybe they'll stop fighting.

Comments

[kay.livejournal.com]

I simply agree. There never was and there never will be peace there. I doubt they even want peace. Something in their blood just wants, needs war, death and blood. It's apparently what they live for .... neither one is very interested in peace, so why should we be? Sooner or later they'll have erediacted each other and the problem will be solved.

[the-ravyn.livejournal.com]

The only time there will be peace in that region, is if the entire area is nuked. Leave nothing standing, not even Jerusalem. If there's no land for these two violent and unapologetic nations to fight over, maybe they'll stop fighting.

This is the only part I disagree with you on.  This isn't just about land, Brother.  I think you know that.  These are two religious ideologies that go back to the time of Abraham.  Both sides think that they are the true inheritors of the birth right handed down by God to Abraham and therefore are entitled to all the spoils of such a birth right.  Elimination of land via nuclear annihilation won't stop this particular brand of warfare and hatred.

[shamrocks-13.livejournal.com]

Kinda how I view Iraq. They seem to want to fight, always. Like that movie with Jamie Foxx (yes, I know it is hollywoodized) where they said they, meaning the US, would pay. And how they teach their children to hate the US. They breed a lot of hate in the middle east. How can they ever want peace, truly?

[kay.livejournal.com]

I think they put extra testosterone in the water there o something ... countries are run by men, and they're out for nothing but blood. They live on hate, it's amazing.

[eithnepdb.livejournal.com]

I would recommend an understanding of more than 92 years of history. This conflict, like that of so many others (Ireland and Britain, Croats and Serbs, Arab states etc) have hundreds if not thousands of years that have gone into what they are today.

If we followed your recommendation of nuking areas of the world that have turmoil well - there wouldn't be much left would there?

[louenn.livejournal.com]

The whole area has been a mess going back to Biblical times, to the Old Testament. Can I point you in the direction of the Book of Exodus please? ;)

Nuking Jerusalem will just piss off, oh, about half of the global population, who see that city as a focal point for their religion. Not a viable solution to the problem, really.

[naimhe35.livejournal.com]

I agree. I also believe there is some biblical prophecy in scripture that tell how this all plays out. I think I will have to research that.

[conservative67.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting your opinion I'm pretty sure you know my opinion so I won't re-state it here so as not to start a flame-war

[authoressnebula.livejournal.com]

I like how you balanced out both sides, stating how they're both nowhere near perfect.

I sincerely wish that, honestly, the civilians could be removed and the entire landmass removed. They've fought and fought over the land for years on end in the name of their Gods. And it doesn't make any sense to me. How people could ever fight and take other human lives and say, "This is totally okay, because our God says it's cool"...I don't understand. And frankly, I don't think I'd ever want to understand a faith that makes any of this fighting and killing okay.

~Nebula

[seegwa.livejournal.com]

The only time there will be peace in that region, is if the entire area is nuked. Leave nothing standing, not even Jerusalem. If there's no land for these two violent and unapologetic nations to fight over, maybe they'll stop fighting.

I once told an Israeli friend of mine that, if I was given Goddess like powers, I would wipe places like Israel and the Gaza Strip from the map. Raze it to the ground or sink it or something. Here, fight over dirt. She wasn't happy, being strongly jewish, but she understood. They're sick of the fighting too. But, they want Israel to be all theirs. Too bad the Muslims and Palestinians have an equally strong sense of entitlement.

Frankly, I would cleanse any region where there have been centuries of conflict. Enough is enough. Grow the fuck up, people. It's a HUGE world. It's possible to live in it along side people of other beliefs.

[bronxelf-ag001.livejournal.com]

You forgot something.

"and once again, religion shows us what it's really made of. Ad nauseam."

[sabotabby]

Honestly? One could say the same thing about the US. (And Canada for that matter, which despite its peaceful reputation can't seem to shake its addiction to killing indigenous people, Afghans, and Haïtians.) And every other nation and culture.

I have yet to be convinced that there is something So Completely Different and Alien and Hateful about people in the Middle East that peace is not a possibility. Suggesting so plays into the Orientalist myths that have condemned so much of the region to its present violence and misery.

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

They definitely don't want peace...

And yes, they will eventually eradicate each other. I just hope that they don't take us with them...

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

Sadly, I feel in my gut that you're right.

I don't want to get into the religiosity of it, though... That's a real pit of snakes...

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

Most other conflicts have a difference. There are compromises that can be made, and a point to negotiations. Israel and Palestine, however, have been given roadmap after roadmap. They do not appear to want peace.

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

:D

Indeed!

The problem is, both sides are not willing to compromise...

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

:D

I do.

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

*hugs you*

It's terrifying...

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

It's a ridiculous situation, with no real solution in sight :(

[shamrocks-13.livejournal.com]

Sometimes parking lots are needed to set an example, lol. I would like to make a parking lot of about 98% of this world!

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

Religion... That's a whole side of it that I kinda kept away from.

But I agree.

[bronxelf-ag001.livejournal.com]

In this case you can't keep away from it because it all comes down to that.

[kay.livejournal.com]

You lost me when you placed the words violence and misery in the same sentence as Orientalist myths. Nothing mythical about the dead bodies I saw on the news today. Now of course it's safe to speak of myths and peace when you're safely cooped up inside a pretty home somewhere in Canada, the US or Europe.

When was there ever peace there and what makes you believe there can be peace there?

[eithnepdb.livejournal.com]

History will tell us and history isn't over yet. At the heights of the other conflicts negotiations were not yet made and peace was not yet attained, and in some cases is still not yet attained.

The statements you have made now about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict could have been made during these other conflicts before ceasefire or peace was attained.

[conservative67.livejournal.com]

like I said you have the right to state your opinion and you did :)